#20 How To Beat Swipe Fatigue + Mark's Lost First Love

In this engaging conversation, Mark Rosenfeld shares how his insecurities cost him his first love, as well as how it's been to transition to being a 'single mum' on a dating app. Him and Teal Elisabeth then cover Swipe Fatigue in the main topic of the day - how to avoid it, and what to do if you're already in it.

Takeaways
Being a single mum is just as viable as NOT being a single mum.
Men also experience insecurities in dating, not just women.
Taking breaks from dating apps can help alleviate fatigue.
It's important to approach dating with a mindset of self-care.
Emotional rewards are crucial for maintaining dating habits.
Understanding the dynamics of attraction can improve dating experiences.
Self-awareness can lead to better communication in relationships.
Finding joy in the dating process can prevent burnout.

Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:33 Surviving Sleep Deprivation
3:43 Mark Became A Bumble Mum!
8:00 How Mark Blew Up His First Love
20:19 How To Beat Swipe Fatigue
35:00 Want more help? Book a call!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:33 Surviving Sleep Deprivation
• 3:43 Mark Became A Bumble Mum!
• 8:00 8:00 How Mark Blew Up His First Love
• 20:19 How To Beat Swipe Fatigue
• 35:00 Want more help? Book a call!

Transcript

[Speaker 1]
What it's like being a mum on Bumble, how I pushed away my first love, and beating swipe fatigue. How do you avoid monotony on the apps? We'll see you right after this.

G'day and welcome to The Tinder Project, the podcast where a straight Aussie man attempts to survive 365 days dating online as an American woman. I'm your host, Mark Rosenfeld, Australia's dating coach for women. I'm here with my sidekick, self-love coach, Teal Elizabeth, and together, we have one mission, to make meeting good men fun and easy for you.

Let's give it a go.

[Speaker 2]
Mark, how are you today? Look at that gorgeous face.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, wow.

[Speaker 2]
Ladies and gents, I have to say, doesn't Mark look dashing? Because no one would ever know that he has been fully sleep deprived for the last, how many months, weeks now? Like three months?

[Speaker 1]
We're going on about two months of sleep regression, yeah. About two months of five to six times a night wake ups.

[Speaker 2]
Six times a night, and yet he still shows up every week with amazing, insightful things to say on this podcast, and showing up for all of us ladies, being a woman online, showing us what's possible, even from a place of sleep deprivation. I just have mad props to give you. And I will also say that because I've been through this, and I'm about to go through it again, it is not for the weak of heart.

It is probably one of the most challenging things on the planet. Like nobody talks about how effing difficult sleep deprivation is until you go through it. Like you don't even feel like you, you feel like you're like a shell of yourself, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's so tough. I mean, thank you, first of all, Teal. That was lovely.

Love the intro. Episode 20, little high five to us. We're here, 20th episode, day 149 of the Tinder project.

That doesn't even count the warmup. And yeah, still here. And we're actually on topic today, aren't we?

Because we're talking about fatigue 149 days in a row, including significant sleep deprivation. Fatigue seems like just the appropriate topic to be talking about. But no, thank you, Teal.

It's been, yeah, the sleep deprivation is something like I never imagined. It is, I've always been that guy. I was like this in, I know a lot of people like this in college, but I was like this in my late 20s, early 30s.

I'll pull an all nighter, no worries at all and power through. I almost enjoy it. I kind of take a little bit of sick pride in doing that and just being okay.

But night number two, night number three, night number 14, night number 28. It is, it is so, I love having a kid, don't get me wrong. But this sleep deprivation is the most torturous, difficult thing that I've ever been chronically challenged to do in my life.

I've definitely had other challenges, social challenges, a lot of challenges that have really pushed me. But this is a, this is more like a survival challenge. Those things were more like goal challenges.

This is more like a just survive it challenge. It's, it is, it is so rough sometimes.

[Speaker 2]
I 100% feel you and I know what you're going through. And I just am applauding you and praising you. And just, I'm reminding you, it will not be like this forever.

It will get better. But it is really, really tough right now. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, Teal. Are you well as well? Are you getting better?

You had your little coffee last week. Can I let, can I say funny things this week or do I need to be serious to not make you laugh?

[Speaker 2]
You can say funny things. They may still make me cough and they may not be very happy. But I like laughing.

[Speaker 1]
We'll cut them in post. It's fine. I'll just get these awkward cuts of Teal.

It'll, it'll be, I'll just cut, cut the tweezers. All right, Teal. I became a mother over the last two weeks.

I take that back, actually. That's complete disrespect to every mum that's listening. You have never been through what we've been through.

Stop that. But I have on Bumble. I have on Bumble.

So just in the Bumble space, I have quite literally been through what you've been through. And look, Teal, it's early days still. We're on day 15 of the Bumble mum experiment.

Now, every good experimenter knows that when you're testing variables, you only ever change one thing at once. That's how you know if the change you've made had an effect. Don't take two medications.

I mean, sometimes you have to take two medications at once. But in an ideal world, you don't take two similar medications at once. You don't make two changes to business processes at once.

Because it's hard to know which one had an effect. So what did I do? I changed two things at once.

Now, I knew I was doing this when I was doing it, because the two things I changed was, first of all, I became a mother. Second of all, I moved from Hinge to Bumble. Now, I knew I was doing this at the time.

I felt that we needed to get a fresh app, just do something fresh. And I didn't want Hinge to ban us the way Tinder has. That'll be a story for another day.

So I just wanted to kind of reset things. But it has created a little bit of a problem that I anticipated, which is we can't know exactly whether it was the move from Hinge to Bumble that caused some of these changes, or the move from not a mother to a mother that caused these changes. But the early days of the experiment is a little bit feeling like when I did Bumble in the warm-up phase.

That was before the Tinder project started, which is you do have more conversations on Bumble that burn out than on some of the other apps. Because you, as the woman, open the conversation, and then the man only has 24 hours to respond. You are hoping he logs on that day and sees the message.

And there's plenty of times he just won't. So you can potentially waste a lot of time sending opening messages to men who literally never even look at them. But so far, in terms of numbers, we are definitely going through more men.

So in terms of this month, I have been through 67 profiles in two weeks, as in viewed 67 profiles. From a couple of weeks ago, you guys will remember, that's typically about how many we go through in... We go through about 80 in a month, typically.

Maybe as high as 100, as few as 60. But we're already through 67 this month. It's only been two weeks.

So we're burning through more profiles. We've had 28 conversations started, but some of those have not even got off the ground. Five phone drops, two phone calls so far.

So it's hard to tell because the first week, as I say, is always a write-off. You almost never get dates in the first week. So if you discount the first week, we're starting to get momentum now.

We've got a few calls coming through. It may turn out to be pretty close to regular. But one thing that I have appreciated is that the actual matches, we've still got a lot.

Like it started at 500, then it was 600, 700. I believe it's at 1950 today. We're still getting about 20 to 30 new ones each day.

So there has been no shortage of potential matches for us as a single mom. And I think that's brilliant because that shows that, okay, men are still swiping on us. Men are still open to us.

Yes, I know. Some guys don't even look. They just swipe.

But we're still getting into conversations. Are a few burning out? Are we getting a few more unmatches?

Yes, I would say we are getting a higher rate of those things. But again, is that because we're on Bumble? Is that because we're a mom?

It's a little bit hard to know. But overall, I have seen we've got plenty of men, more than we could ever know what to do with. Hundreds, thousands more than we could ever know what to do with.

We're still getting phone calls. It's a little bit slower. But that might even be just Bumble's a little slower than Hinge because the men on Bumble are a little more laid back in general because that's what the app caters to.

So that's kind of my up-to-date so far. I'll have the final scores for it in three weeks. But so far, I'm meeting some cool single dads.

I met a couple of cool guys. And I'm getting a mix of some of them are dads and some of them aren't. About 50-50 in terms of her matches.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, okay. So yeah, there's definite hope and inspiration and potential for all our mamas out there. And yet, it seems like- And keep in mind, this is a one-year-old.

[Speaker 1]
I'm putting that the child is a one-year-old. So that basically gets easier the older the child gets. So one-year-old is an intense choice.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it is an intense choice. They're still not sleeping through the night at this stage.

[Speaker 1]
That's probably not true. You're dating a sleep-deprived woman as well. So that's all going well.

Teal, do you want to hear about when I- My biggest- Basically, how I blew my first love. How I've destroyed it, botched it.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, yes. Are you okay with sharing that? Because that sounds a little- I'm okay with sharing that.

[Speaker 1]
I maybe use the term first love a little bit loosely. But I would say it was definitely the first woman that I really had a true heart-to-heart connection with. Is it love at the time?

I probably would have said yes at the time. Looking back compared to what I now know is love, maybe not. It kind of never got that far along.

But at the time, amazing woman. Thought very highly of her at the time. Have no idea what she's doing now, but still would think very highly of her if I ran into her in the street.

So this is basically what happened. It's actually a little bit in line with our topic today because I was getting- I was going out a lot to bust my social anxiety and to get over my agoraphobia and kind of put myself out there. And I was going night after night and getting rejection after rejection, 10, 12 rejections a night over and over again for weeks and months on end.

And you can imagine just like going on the apps, that gets pretty tiresome. That starts to really suck. You're sitting there at 5pm, you're tired, you've just had dinner, you're on the couch and you're going, if I don't get to the club by 9pm tonight, I'm going to fail my goal for the year.

And all I have to look forward to in that stupid club is most likely 10 to 12 rejections based on previous experience. That's most likely what's going to happen tonight and I want to go to bed and I'm tired. So this is, I could relate to the swipe fatigue from a nightclub fatigue perspective.

But anyway, I was in this process, I can't remember exactly how many days in I was, but it was a few. I would say it was not within the first 30 nights. It was probably around night 40, night 50.

I actually used one of the pickup lines that I described to you last week. Those that know Brisbane, this is more of a pub and we're out in the outside area basically. And I saw a few women sitting down with a couple of men as well.

And I think it was a group of five of them. And I'd already sort of worked up my courage and I just said, screw it. I'm going to do it.

I'm going to see who's single in that group. And I walked over and I said, hey guys, sorry I'm late. And the whole group burst out laughing.

They thought it was the funniest thing ever. And they said, hey, hey, you're really cool. You need to meet our friend.

And there was a sixth member of this group who I guess had got dragged away for some reason. And the sixth member of the group came back and sat down and she was gorgeous. She was like, oh my God, the friend is stunning, amazing.

So we got chatting and we connected really well. We exchanged numbers. And at this point, I hadn't really had a lot of success taking women I met in a club or at a bar out to actually dating them and maybe even having a girlfriend.

This was 30, 40 nights in. I'd maybe had a hookup or two, but there wasn't really a lot of traction in terms of longer term stuff. This one had traction.

So we started connecting. I took her out on a date. It was amazing.

I'm trying to remember what the first date was, but it was freaking magical. And we just connected really well over that year. And sorry, the start of the project.

And we started going on multiple dates. We started hanging out a lot. We started sleeping together.

Things were ticking along very nicely. We got to an awkward point because I was on my mission for the year. I was, I had this year long goal.

I wanted to get to the end of it. I was still meeting people consistently every night, mostly women. And I'm sure she probably picked up on that.

And so as we were connecting further, I'm sure that she reached a point where she noticed, oh, he goes out a lot. He's clearly very confident. At least that's how she would have seen me.

And he's not asked me to be his girlfriend. He's not moving things forward to the exclusive point. I'm sure she started self-protecting there.

Anyone would. And so she started pulling away a little bit. Not a heap at first, but just enough that I could sense she was replying a bit more slowly.

And I thought maybe she's like dating other guys or something, whatever it was. So I had the brilliant solution at the time. I said, okay, I know about women.

I'm learning about women on this journey. The biggest thing you don't do is be needy as a guy. So I've said, clearly I'm being over available to her TL.

I have too much availability. I'm being weak in her eyes. Maybe weak's the wrong word, but I'm being needy in her eyes and I'm prioritizing her too highly.

So she's losing attraction. That must be what's going on in this scenario. Very clearly I was all over it at the time.

So of course I started doing a little bit of that myself and saying, okay, we can see each other on weeknights now and maybe not weekends and stuff, but it was still salvageable until her birthday came around. And she basically said, look, I would really love you at my birthday. Would you like to come?

All my friends are going to be there. It'd be great to have you. At my birthday.

It's this Saturday night or whenever it is, next Saturday night. I remember it was a Saturday and I stopped at this and I thought, if I go to this, TL, she's going to think I'm so needy like I have nothing else to do on a Saturday night. It's going to kill her attraction towards me.

Oh my God, no, no, no. Oh dear. So I quite literally basically invented some way to be busy.

I think I said, technically I did hang out with a friend, but it wasn't anything productive. It's like, oh, I think I'm busy that night. I'm hanging out with Tana and we're doing stuff, whatever.

I was doing nothing other than what I was usually doing, which was just going to clubs and meeting women to tick a box and usually getting rejected 95% of the time doing it.

[Speaker 2]
Oh my God.

[Speaker 1]
But I didn't want to be needy, TL. I couldn't attend her birthday. That would be too needy.

So after this happened, she was pulling away further and I was like, this isn't working. I'm being resteedy and she seems less interested. What's not working here?

And finally about three weeks later, I basically said to her, or she said to me, like, what's going on here? We were so connected. We're going to class.

I can really sense there's distance now. And she's like, Mark, you didn't want to come to my birthday. So to be honest with you, I ended up inviting another guy who I started seeing when, you know, because I figured you weren't interested.

And at that point, the penny dropped for me, TL. I was like, oh shit. The not being needy thing, the being unavailable thing.

I think I might've taken it too far. I think I overcooked it. And it was actually, I was actually really sad at the time.

So I tried to get her back and I tried to say, I'm sorry, I didn't realize. But it had been a few weeks at that point. I think she'd started taking the other guy more seriously.

He was always, he seemed like he was very serious about her. He went to the friend's birthday thing. And so eventually, eventually I accepted my fate, but I said, all right, her name, I guess I can say her name.

Her name was Hannah. I said, all right, Hannah, can we at least do a farewell date? Can we at least do a goodbye date?

And I don't know what I was expecting, TL, but it didn't go well. I don't know how a goodbye date with someone you're losing ever does go well, but TL, it didn't go well. It was literally, here's what it consisted of.

It was me finally convincing her to hang out with me one last time. And we did. I think we walked around for a couple of hours, but obviously the vibe was very different.

And then she said, all right, old mate, which is a guy she'd been seeing, he's picking me up at two. And then he picked her up.

[Speaker 2]
Oh God.

[Speaker 1]
I was like, this is a terrible goodbye date. But then I'm like, what did I expect from a goodbye date? I gave her a cute card, TL.

I gave her a cute card that said, some people come into our lives and, and what is it? Some people come into our lives and, and quickly, and quickly exit. Or some people come into our lives and quickly leave.

Others come into our lives, leave footprints on our heart, and we are forever changed. So I did give her a very cute card, TL. But it didn't change the, uh, it didn't change the outcome.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I think there's a really good takeaway out of all of this, this story here.

[Speaker 1]
What's the takeaway, TL? Teach me.

[Speaker 2]
Let's bring it home for our listeners here. Um, I think here is that even though men, when we're out there dating, we're online, we're talking to all these guys, you know, it can feel very much like we are the ones that are the insecure ones. We're the ones trying to make sure we're not coming off too insecure, too needy to this or to that.

But we have to remember ladies that men are also feeling these things too. It's a two-way street and it's not just all about how we feel. We also have to make sure that we're not reading too much into their actions.

And if something feels off, just bring it up early and often. Say, hey, just like she did, which I think was beautiful. I think she just waited too long to communicate that.

Hey, you know, what's going on? We seem like we're having a good connection and then now you seem a little distant or weird or off. Um, I think the more that we can- We learned salsa together, TL.

Salsa. I know, but if you're at the salsa level, you guys should be able to talk openly about how you're feeling. So I think it's just a really good reminder because I've heard this too.

And my girlfriend, you know, came to me the other night. She was like, gosh, this guy seems so great. We connected on all these levels.

But then he just started all acting all just bravado and like machismo and just pretending like he was too cool for me and all this stuff. And I'm just like, it's such a turnoff. And it really makes me wonder, you know, is he also masking his own insecurities there?

Is it that he is just an absolute douchebag and she wanted to write him off? Or do we give him a chance to say, hey, I really feel like we're connecting here. But then I also noticed this other side of you.

And I just want to understand a little bit more like, are you a douchebag or is this you just hiding something of an insecurity? And if so, let's clear through that insecurity together so we don't sabotage this. And I do think that this is a really valuable takeaway for women to realize is that men a lot of times are trying to act confident.

They're trying to not look XYZ, too needy, too whatever. And then it can kind of bite them in the ass if they're not careful with it. So they're not perfect at it either.

And we can't take their first actions or the first words as face value of the type of character that they are, even though that's all we have to go on. Maybe I'm giving men too much of a benefit of the doubt, but I think that would be my mental approach. You know, if I could keep up the resiliency and deal with them in those moments, I would rather prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and see that this is probably something they're just hiding from their own insecurity rather than they're actually a douchebag in life.

[Speaker 1]
I was so insecure in that moment and with her. And I think as well because I knew myself and how much failure I'd been having. And then in the little snapshot of me that she had seen, I was probably the super confident guy that sat down with her friends and was always going out.

And the difference between the way she probably saw me and the way I saw myself was so catastrophic that it made me feel incredibly insecure about my ability to keep her. And then actually there was a slight epilogue here, Teal, that I was so insecure. I actually ran into her about six months later and I was terrified of running into her.

I literally was like looking around in the street, hoping day to day that I wouldn't run into her. Like that's how embarrassed I was about this whole thing. I did run into her and I basically ran away.

Like she sort of started a conversation. She like ran up to me and gave me a hug, said, so good to see you. I basically made whatever excuse I could find to get away.

Well, so the universe almost like threw me a bone there. And then she sent me a text after and said, hey, it's great to see you. And I said, yeah, you too, you know, come.

No, sorry. She said we should catch up. And I said, oh, you can come find me.

You know where I am. You know which club I go to. Like I was so insecure.

Yeah. That's literally, I literally told her, you know what club I go to, where I am on a Saturday night. You come find me.

She probably like whacked her hand against her forehead and was like, all right, I'm so done with this guy. But yeah, that's how insecure I was, Teal. So lost first love.

[Speaker 2]
But that's very interesting because you're not a douchebag. You're not a douchebag guy at all. But those scenes, they could be seen as very douchey things.

[Speaker 1]
It's all in the eyes of the Bahá'u'lláh. She probably thought I was for a bit there. But Teal, let's talk about swipe fatigue because I know it's a topic on the mind of many of our listeners.

You know, I go through this some days as well. We talked a lot about sleep deprivation at the start of the show today. 150 days tomorrow that I've been at this.

So I get it. Like I feel it as well. But swipe fatigue, how do we avoid it?

I think prevention is better than cure, first of all. Most clients come to me and they're already fatigued. They already hate the idea of the app.

So there's already been, okay, I don't want to go through that again kind of experience. Do you want to start us off here, Teal?

[Speaker 2]
Sure. Yeah. Well, this is very pressing because I literally just had a client coming to me yesterday.

She actually was crying on the call to me because she was feeling that way. She was so frustrated by the current scene that she had been experiencing. And she says she's been doing all the work on herself.

She's been doing all these things. And yet she's still just not meeting all the right guys. And even the guys she does feel like she's connecting with, they're just, they're not taking it to the next level.

And she's like, I just don't know what else to do. And it can be very frustrating. And I literally told her the same advice that you probably suggest too, which is get off the apps and take a break.

Just take a break. Because it really does mess with our whole energy and our whole vibration that we're putting out there if we are feeling and coming into it, feeling drained and depleted. It's like, we're not showing our best self.

And people can feel that. And not only can people feel that, but you would end up attracting less quality guys, in my opinion, because you're not really putting out the vibration of someone that is like, I don't need anyone. I'm just here for enjoying connection and seeing what happens and trusting the flow.

You're usually coming into it when you're depleted from a place of like, I'm lonely. I don't, I want this to work. I need to find someone.

And that stressy energy then attracts in more men that are gonna take advantage of that. So anytime that you are feeling fatigued, it's a real true opportunity to just take a break. And actually, and I used to work at Uber in the headquarters and it was my job to build out the entire global training around burnout.

So I'm like very familiar and equipped with all the tools of how to see burnout, how to stay away from burnout and what happens if you are burnt out. And it is a full like neurological shutdown where our nervous system just cannot operate to the same extent that it was. And when we do really get to a place of burnout, it's really hard to recover from for a while.

Like it takes time to recover. So we really do need to see this as a marathon and not a sprint. And I know a lot of women tend to do this like late at night as they're kind of like winding down for the evening.

But just be very mindful of how much time you're spending on the apps, just kind of mindfully or not mindfully, mindlessly scrolling through spending that time because it can become another addiction just like social media, just like television and where we're not really actually getting our energy replenished from it, it ends up depleting us even more. So I think that the whole project that you're doing right now, the Tinder project that we're calling it is really, really powerful because you're literally modeling 20 minutes a day on my time when I decide to do it. It could be on my lunch break or it could be in the morning.

Like I'm not overly focusing on this. I think that's a really great way to show that you can do this and not get fatigued by it. But even still, you have a bajillion, I mean, part of it is a numbers game.

Part of it is a filtering process and that can be tiring and exhausting. So just my, I think my biggest mindset is if you are feeling fatigued, just give yourself a breather, know that this is a marathon, take your breaks and then step back into it when you're in a better, healthier mindset. And if you need help, ask for help.

Come to Mark, come to me and we'll give you some support and some tools to get you back to feeling in that radiant goddess essence before you put yourself back out there again.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's brilliant too. There's a really interesting conversation here about not just dating apps, but any activity that you are doing that you're not enjoying and how do you maintain that habit if you're not enjoying it? Could be exercise, could be diet, could be meditation, could be 20 minutes a day of reading.

Almost all habits, I think we kind of assume that it's a willpower thing and then we feel bad about ourselves when we can't keep up the willpower. But the truth is most habits, we keep them up because we learn emotionally there's some sort of reward there, either for doing them or there's an emotional punishment for not doing them. So let me give you an example.

You hate going to the gym, but you do it for long enough using willpower that as time goes on, you start to notice there's a line down your stomach or you start to notice the numbers on the scale go down and there becomes some positive emotional feedback for actually going there. And that's where our brain sort of changes and starts to associate good things with going on there. You can also do the opposite, which is you can associate more pain to not doing the thing.

So I say, hey, Teal, I'm going to give you $1,000. If I don't take a selfie at the gym every day this week, you keep my money. So there is more pain, emotional pain associated with not doing the thing.

So a lot of my work with clients, and yes, most clients come to me, they've already gone through the burnout because they've tried everything or at least they think they've tried everything. And when our brain is out of ideas, we just get depressed because we basically give up and accept our situation. With the right strategy, you don't have to do that, but you don't want to jump back on when you're burnt out.

So with almost all clients, I have them take a break first, usually a month, sometimes two months. And then we bring them back in with this very specific strategy. But even then, those first 30 to 60 days can be really tough.

It can bring up your insecurities. The first few can go really badly. Even I am not getting dates for the first week.

So I try as much as possible to change my client's emotional experiences. For example, doing it as a group and having a laugh, or we might find a scammer and actually game him. Or there has to be some way, if you're going to do it long-term, any habit, this is not just apps, without getting burnt out, there has to be an emotional reward there somewhere.

And it can't, with apps specifically, it can't just be, I find my husband. Because it's very binary. And it's kind of like, it's one of those things you don't have it until you do.

So it's not like exercise where you can see the pounds coming off or money where you can see the numbers in the bank account increasing. You need some other habit that feels, not logically is, but feels rewarding along the way so that you're getting some little kick. For me, one of my big wounds two things I fear most in life is inhibition.

So losing my self-expression, I talked a little bit about this last week, and failure. So if we have a look at even this challenge, why am I able to do this? Well, it's because I fear failure.

And so having to come on the podcast and say, okay, guys, I screwed it up is a negative emotion for me. And then self-expression has always been a struggle for me. So even though it's really hard going to the nightclubs as the example, by forcing myself to do it, I started to feel good about myself when I was having some success.

So let's say that feminine energy is a weakness for you. You could say, all right, I'm not very strong in my feminine energy, but the apps are a really safe place to practice it and have little wins along the way. So you start seeing your feminine energy wins the same way I started seeing women in the nightclubs no longer walking away from me, at least giving me time for a conversation.

So you see wins along the way. Basically, whatever it is, you've got to find something that's emotionally rewarding in the experience. Either that or you make not doing it emotionally painful.

And as I say, it could be a little growth that you have. It could be you get a bunch of ladies around and you laugh at it. I like to do that with clients.

We do it in groups. They have like a swiping half hour. Everyone laughs and it makes it a positive experience.

There has to be something in those first 60 to 90 days that means you're not just willpowering because your willpower will run out. You will have a weekday and you will drop the habit. So sometimes it happens by accident.

As I say, you go to the gym and you go, yeah, look at that. I wasn't expecting that, but I got some lines there on those abs. Or it's something purposeful where you intentionally go with the girls and you have a laugh.

But yeah, I think the biggest thing with busting swipe fatigue is figuring out, maybe it's like, I don't know, maybe you make it a really cheeky, evil sounding one. Like, hee hee, I'm going to learn how to manipulate men to like me on the abs. Now I'm not saying that like do it from a negative place, but having power over men can be kind of powerful, right?

Women like feeling like goddesses to tell me if I'm wrong to you. And part of being a goddess you kind of have worshipers and people who are doing whatever you want. So maybe you can treat apps a little bit like that and learn how to influence and quote unquote manipulate men using feminine energy in a positive way that actually makes you feel good and feel empowered.

But whatever it is, you've got to find something somehow that is emotionally rewarding. Otherwise your willpower might get through 30 or 60 days, but it'll fall off after that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah. I like your more scientific approach to it for sure. And like almost seeing it as just a overcoming of a habit.

It did trigger me though when you said manipulating men using your feminine energy that I do not like that. And I do not believe in that. And I know that that's not what you were intending with it.

But I, and I get what you're trying to say. I just, how can I make this more fun and more intriguing? But please let's clarify that we're not purposely trying to manipulate or use our feminine power in a manipulative way.

[Speaker 1]
No, I think it's an, yes, it's an interesting topic because is there such a thing as healthy manipulation? And you could argue for me. So when I use that word in this context, all I'm saying is, okay, if I manipulate my child to eat their vegetables by denying them ice cream, have I gotten a good result out of that?

Probably, right? If I have manipulated someone from not taking their life because of their feminine energy, then I have a good result.