#30 The Pros and Cons of PRENUPS + Should You Call Yourself A "Queen"?

Mark Rosenfeld and Teal Elisabeth debate the pros and cons of prenups. Mark explains why he believes they’re important, while Teal shares her thoughts on the emotional side of the discussion. They also explore how prenups can shape trust and communication in a relationship. Tune in for a lively conversation on this relationship hot topic! Let us know what you think in the comments!

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction

00:40 Teal's Pregnancy Update

02:20 Exercise and Self-Care in Pregnancy

03:50 Self-Compassion or Self-Excuse? Finding the Line

04:40  The Watermelon Challenge Explained

06:18 The Tinder Project Progress Update

08:15 Clarity and Specificity in Relationships

12:15 Mark’s thoughts on To Prenup or Not to Prenup

15:20 The Role of Money in Relationships

21:20 Is Calling Yourself a King or Queen Confidence or Narcissism?

27:00 Teal’s Take on “Queen or Goddess” energy – 3 Characteristics

28:45 Mark’s Take on “Queen or Goddess” energy – 3 Characteristics

29:45 “King” - Mark’s thoughts

33:15 Masculine confidence, “Ego vs Heart”

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:40 Teal's Pregnancy Update
• 2:20 Exercise and Self-Care in Pregnancy
• 3:50 Self-Compassion or Self-Excuse? Finding the Line
• 4:40 The Watermelon Challenge Explained
• 6:18 The Tinder Project Progress Update
• 8:15 Clarity and Specificity in Relationships
• 12:15 Mark’s thoughts on To Prenup or Not to Prenup
• 15:20 The Role of Money in Relationships
• 21:20 Is Calling Yourself a King or Queen Confidence or Narcissism?
• 27:00 Teal’s Take on “Queen or Goddess” energy – 3 Characteristics
• 28:45 Mark’s Take on “Queen or Goddess” energy – 3 Characteristics
• 29:45 “King” - Mark’s Thoughts
• 33:15 Masculine confidence, “Ego vs Heart”
• 35:19 Speak To Us

Transcript

Mark Rosenfeld (00:00.674)
The results of the niching experiment are prenups, a good idea, and is it wise or narcissistic to call yourself a queen or a king? We'll see you right after this.

Teal Elisabeth (00:14.927)
I thought that was good.

Mark Rosenfeld (00:16.142)
Okay. The results of the niching experiment are prenups a good idea or... The results of the niching experiment are prenups a good idea and is it wise, narcissistic or confidence building to call yourself a king or a queen? We'll see you right after this.

Which one's your favorite?

Teal Elisabeth (00:40.681)
first one.

Mark Rosenfeld (00:41.528)
First one. Okay, awesome. All right. Shall we? Get my shirt all nice.

Teal Elisabeth (00:47.476)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Rosenfeld (00:50.812)
let me turn my camera just so maybe we've got a little less of this.

Teal Elisabeth (00:52.607)
Ahem.

Mark Rosenfeld (00:57.07)
Alright, yeah, let's rock it. You ready?

Teal Elisabeth (01:02.899)
Yeah, let's do it.

Mark Rosenfeld (01:05.112)
Teal, how far away are you? When's the date? Six weeks. that's so exciting. Congratulations. And you said you're, you're feeling very pregnant now, which I would kind of hope by this point of the pregnancy.

Teal Elisabeth (01:06.527)
Hi, Mark. Six weeks and counting. Oh my gosh. So exciting. So exciting.

Teal Elisabeth (01:21.183)
I really want to get Spencer to do the watermelon challenge. Have you heard about this? my God, it's so great. Because like I'm going to show you. I got a freaking watermelon. You know what I'm right now? It's pretty big.

Mark Rosenfeld (01:26.904)
No, what is this?

Mark Rosenfeld (01:33.054)
yeah. You got it. You got it. Very, you look very nice. Like you're very, very shapely pregnant lady too.

Teal Elisabeth (01:39.749)
Well, thank you. Thank you. I've still been doing my Pilates when I have a chance so trying to keep keep my My ass looking good and my belly looking big

Mark Rosenfeld (01:45.326)
That's amazing.

Mark Rosenfeld (01:49.826)
That's I mean, poor Sam was so knocked around. She was so good. She fought through horrible. I mean, I remember going on walks with her and she was vomiting. That's how bad her, what's it called, morning sickness in the first 20 weeks was. She has went 20 weeks and she was doing so well. And then she got the flu and essentially fraction dislocated a rib just from laughing, sadly. Worst way to break a bone ever.

And from there, unfortunately, she was just so, she couldn't sleep and, and, and the exercise fell off. So I think that was about a month, four or five. She did such a good job. I was so proud of her and then she couldn't anymore. So for you to make it within six weeks, mean, I'll tell him to listen to this. She might be a bit jealous honestly over you, Teal. It's very impressive.

Teal Elisabeth (02:30.633)
I mean...

You don't have to tell her I'm an overachiever in every category always. It hasn't been as regular as I'd like, but when I have some energy, even though I haven't been sleeping either, it's been important for me because to me, I think this is actually a really good talking point just for the podcast. You know, doing the things that make you feel like you is going to actually make you just a better human for everyone around you. And exercise to me is such a huge part of my identity. And I've really cultivated that as part of my identity.

Mark Rosenfeld (02:40.142)
I'm telling you.

Teal Elisabeth (03:03.229)
So yes, I have the excuse of I'm, I'm nauseous. I'm, you know, so sick with a sinus infection, all these things. I can't sleep. But at the end of the day, I feel worse if I'm not honoring my body and giving it what it needs. If as long as I'm resting and counterbalancing the rest with it.

Mark Rosenfeld (03:20.517)
I agree with everything you say and it pains me because my identity has been deeply entwined in exercise for 20 plus years. I remember first walking into a gym when I was 16 and I don't think I've missed a week since until, what are we now? Month 10, until probably about five months ago. And the sleep just got so exhausting and so beyond anything we could handle that I haven't been in gym in five months. Now, surgery, I guess, is kind of an excuse, right? Because you're not allowed to lift. But

Teal Elisabeth (03:46.847)
Totally, totally. There are seasons, for sure. Yeah.

Mark Rosenfeld (03:48.97)
Yeah, I miss it. I miss it because I am not able to follow that advice right now that you just shared.

Teal Elisabeth (03:54.299)
Yeah, and it's not to make you feel bad at all. It's more of just, was an eye opener for me of like, wow, I have every excuse to say it's fine to like, don't worry about it. But my body actually was craving it and it, and even doing a gentle version of it, it was like, I feel better. I feel better overall.

Mark Rosenfeld (04:10.978)
this, this is a conversation topic for another day that I really want to pick your brain on because where is the line between self-compassion and self-excuse, if that's the term for it. excuses basically. Where, where is the line? Because I could say, well, you know, I'm feeling okay. I should be back in the gym and sure, the doctors said it would take six weeks, but I'm kind of on the younger side. I could do it in five or do it in four. And I find that balance hard to tread because I've always leaned on the over

former side, like no, I've always leaned on the no excuse side, but sometimes it burns me out. I'll be honest. And I'm one coach I will say gave me a piece of advice once and he said, if you get to the gym and within 10 minutes, you start at the gym and your body is telling you to go still go home after 10 minutes, then go home was his advice. But he said, get there and then you'll find out if it's laziness or real and takes a bit of extra time to go there. But, but it's that one thing that helped me.

Teal Elisabeth (04:59.645)
Yeah.

Mark Rosenfeld (05:03.31)
But I want to hear, I just want to recycle because that's a conversation for another day. What's the watermelon challenge?

Teal Elisabeth (05:06.792)
Yeah.

I feel like I'm carrying around a watermelon at this point. It's actually the size of a pineapple, this little sweet girl, five pounds already. But the watermelon challenge is basically at the end of your pregnancy, you strap a literal watermelon to your husband with saran wrap around their belly and you make them do everyday basic tasks that you have to do so that they can get the sense of what it's actually like to be pregnant.

Mark Rosenfeld (05:11.01)
I'm like, go back to that, Mark, because that sounds fun. What is it?

Of course.

Mark Rosenfeld (05:29.262)
Okay. Okay.

Teal Elisabeth (05:39.625)
Ha

Mark Rosenfeld (05:40.408)
This sounds like good entertainment, actually. I would consider doing this when I'm, when my stomach is able to handle a watermelon. Have you seen the one where they zap guys to the pain equivalent of giving birth? They put electrodes on them.

Teal Elisabeth (05:43.348)
it's-

So we're seeing.

Teal Elisabeth (05:53.215)
You'd have to bring out a full-on teaser then, yes. Yes.

Mark Rosenfeld (05:56.622)
I have seen it. It's pretty impressive. I think that would make good entertainment too, actually. That's a good challenge. Maybe I will tell Sam about that and maybe I won't depending on how confident I'm feeling that day. Let's talk about Tinder projects. Speaking of challenges, I want to show you how the niching is going. So for those who might be new to the episode, we have been niching down for a man who wants to have kids within a year, which is bloody, bloody tight schedule. Having the woman be a stay at home mom.

Teal Elisabeth (06:13.086)
Yeah.

Mark Rosenfeld (06:26.494)
as in after the kids are born. So she's working right now, but she wants to transition to a stay at home mom. So again, that's a, that's a thing that is quite specific and having a relationship coach. So those are the big three. So far we have had

Okay, 14 days till and we have had.

three dates with guys who are either A or B. Now there's four categories, A, B, C, or D. My clients helped me grade the guys. So this is not my opinion of an A, B, C, or D. This is the average of my clients. And of those, of those 14 days, we've had three guys who fit all the, all the things we're looking for, answered the question in the bio and, and answered the chat questions and got basically through to calling us and a date. So

Teal Elisabeth (06:59.965)
yeah.

Mark Rosenfeld (07:20.15)
I think three in 14 days, especially considering the first five days are very slow and they're A's or B's. These are not the C's or the D's. A's and B's are attractive people. I think that's pretty good. I'm happy with that. Three phone calls with B's or A's. They've all been B's. I thought we had an A this morning, but my clients outvoted me. What was it? Four to two that he was a B, not an A's. All right. He's a B. Fine. I think he's an A. I think you guys have been rough this morning.

Teal Elisabeth (07:31.625)
We've had three phone calls, you said?

Teal Elisabeth (07:44.607)
Bees are very, very wonderful. I would be so happy with a bee.

Mark Rosenfeld (07:49.454)
But this man, my clients, this guy runs, he runs an art gallery, like buys and sells art. He is the right age, six one, handsome guy. went, clients, come on, that's worth an A. And they said, no, no. He said one thing in his bio that he wasn't sure about having a relationship coach. So said, all right, he did say all the other things, right? But that's fair. Maybe he just hasn't been introduced to it yet, but he loses an A based on that. So fair enough. But yeah, three dates still. So pretty good. I think it does.

Teal Elisabeth (08:15.261)
Very good. This is inspirational. I really do think for any ladies listening, what Mark is doing is he's really strength testing all these really, you know, hot spot topics to really see like, is this just like a total out of left field wish and desire that is never actually going to really come true? Or is this something that, yeah, if you really have it clear, you're going to find your types of people. You just have to.

Mark Rosenfeld (08:38.114)
you can find.

Teal Elisabeth (08:43.155)
kind of clear out your own shit, I think too, of the biases and the fears and the worries that if you really lead with your heart and be real about what you want, that that's actually out there. So this is a really, really big proof of that, I think.

Mark Rosenfeld (08:54.626)
Yeah. And one other thing I'll add to that, which is just kind of interesting. You remember in previous months we would go through maybe 80, 100, I think the most we went through was 150 profiles to get our 12 dates in a month. So 150 profiles, 12 dates. This month to find those four guys, or sorry, I said there's three that are bees or above. So far this month in only 14 days using the filtering system,

we got those three dates from almost 300 guys. So we've been, we've been through a lot more people, which is good and bad. I think on the one hand, it does feel like we're churning through a lot of humans to get those dates, which feels a little robotic and inhumane to me. On the other hand, I guess one could argue, well, it's a lot more efficient if you're getting through a hundred guys a month and getting, you know, that many dates versus if you're getting through

500 guys a month with no additional time and still getting the best ones coming through. You could argue, was that just a more efficient system or is it a more robotic in human system? I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it at this stage, but I am enjoying the difference with it. And I will say in addition to those three dates and obviously other guys we've had, there are lots of guys who say, Hey, I love your profile. It's very direct. When I say lots, I'm not talking.

hundreds, but there's a significantly noticeable number of guys that say, wow, that profile is really cool. You're really specific. You're really direct. I love it. I haven't read anything like that. I even had one guy say, look, your profile isn't for me, but kudos to you for being so specific. Like that is a very clear type of guy you're looking for. And I can see that you're going to get that because you were so refined for where you presented it. He complimented it even though he wasn't him. went, huh, that's awesome. That's really cool.

Teal Elisabeth (10:39.679)
Yes. Yes. And it really goes into the visioning talk we had a couple of weeks ago. know, it's like the majority of women, when I talk to them on a call and I say, what is it that you want? You know, if I've had a magic wand and I could give you what you want, what is it? They actually can't tell me clearly what they want. And this is one of the challenges.

Mark Rosenfeld (10:57.166)
Yeah.

forcing you to come up with it. Yeah.

Teal Elisabeth (11:02.599)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We have to be so incredibly specific, not just on the paper stuff, but the feelings and the visceral just knowing what that is like, how to experience that, for that to even be able to cross our path. Mm-hmm.

Mark Rosenfeld (11:12.108)
how you experience it.

Yeah.

And as I say, I'm still so torn on this strategy because you know, I would never go to, let's say a networking event or a singles event or something and be like, all right, I have to find exactly this type of woman amongst the hundred women here and the other 98 can bugger the hell off. I would just never approach a social setting like that. You know, I'd say, cool, let's meet some cool people and see what comes of it and, and kind of let something grow from there. So even though it, this stra, this kind of strategy feels

Teal Elisabeth (11:20.287)
you

Teal Elisabeth (11:32.251)
Hahaha

Teal Elisabeth (11:37.428)
Yes.

Mark Rosenfeld (11:44.313)
more artificial, you know, perhaps it'll out equally or outperform or just underperform the other one, but maybe more user friendly. I think it's interesting that probably as the saying goes, different ways to skin a cat, there's different ways to get it done. And perhaps this will turn out to be more efficient, even though it's not a classically social get to know you with an open energy approach. You're still open, but kind of only to the very specific people you want.

Teal Elisabeth (12:05.022)
right.

Right, right. Well, with that conversation about specifics, I would be really curious to hear your thoughts on prenups. I mean, talk about being specific. Talk about just cutting all the romance out of a marriage proposal. I want to spend the rest of my life with you and when it doesn't work, here's what we're going to do. Here's the contract. What are your thoughts?

Mark Rosenfeld (12:15.118)
yes.

Mark Rosenfeld (12:25.228)
But in case you break up, here's all the stuff that I need.

Mark Rosenfeld (12:34.444)
Yeah, I'm just gonna be direct and say I believe in them.

Teal Elisabeth (12:40.127)
Care to elaborate?

Mark Rosenfeld (12:41.364)
It, yeah, there's a couple of reasons. The biggest one is to me, it's a test of whether or not you should get married anyway. It's like the ultimate team building exercise that if you can't do it, well, you obviously can't have the difficult conversations that a marriage is probably going to need. So I think it's a good test of a marriage. I think it makes you consider things that you perhaps hadn't considered and hadn't had advanced conversations about. Now I've missed conversations in my marriage.

too. So it's not like a prenup gets all of them, but a prenup will force you to have a significant number of them. And it's one of those things that if you do it right, it's done and then you never need to look at it again. But I am of the opinion that if a couple can't do it, if it's really that hard for them to do, then how are they going to have the much more difficult conversations further down the line? So I think it's kind of a good warmup exercise to marriage. It's a little bit like pre-marriage counseling in a sense.

And I'll be honest here. I don't know if this is a little bit of the skeptic in me or something, but the truth is sometimes people can change in unpredictable ways. I mean, we have that long chat about monogamy and someone could, for example, come down with a very serious and unexpected mental illness. And obviously you can support them through that, but if they start doing things that are destructive to you or your children or another loved one, then you need to make some difficult decisions about that. And sometimes it's hard to predict the ways people change. So I don't think it's negatively predicting the future. I think it's

Like I said in that episode where, you know, I almost talked about my story of having my surgery recently and almost passing away. I knew I had to think positively to get my mind through the surgery, but that didn't mean I wrote my passwords down in case something bad happened. So for me, it's you can, you can never know what life is going to throw at you. Hedge your bets. It's a document you'll likely never need, but if you can have those conversations together,

good on you. Go get married. You've done the hard work and now you can enjoy the honeymoon and the bliss and you don't have to think about any of that. So yeah, I'm, I'm all for it. I know there's an expense there to it, but I just think it clears out so many of those conversations upfront and, and helps you just clear the air with everything in the future. I think it's worth it. Yeah.

Teal Elisabeth (14:53.203)
Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective that you have on it. For me, it's I'm like a yes and no. Can I be a yes and no person? That's like that's a Libra in me. I can't make clear. Well, I blame a lot on my start.

Mark Rosenfeld (15:02.456)
gonna fence it on me tail, gee whiz, okay.

Mark Rosenfeld (15:08.949)
You can't blame it on your star sign, stop that. can you imagine what Spencer said came to you? like, oh, Tio, I might have made out with another woman tonight, but you know, that's the Scorpio in me, babe. That's just, that's the Scorpio. What can I say? I'm kind of wild. It's what you love about me. Come on. Anyway, no, why are you yes and why are no?

Teal Elisabeth (15:17.599)
You

Teal Elisabeth (15:23.135)
Well, I actually really, I like, really like that perspective. I never thought about that perspective of like leaning into those hard conversations and kind of as a litmus test of, you have what it takes to be married? that's a really, really great mindset for it. I think some of it may determine, be determined based on what you're both coming into it with as well. Like if someone, if someone comes in.

Mark Rosenfeld (15:50.52)
Yeah, of course, yeah. If you have vastly different net worths, for example.

Teal Elisabeth (15:53.695)
If you guys have vastly different net worths, then yes, that makes a little bit more sense to say, hey, you know what? We're not on equal starting grounds here financially, so it does feel a little unfair that I have to give you half of my wealth if this doesn't work out. So in that kind of regard, I think that would make sense. But for people that are on kind of equal net worths coming into a marriage, when you are looking at this as a teamwork and a partnership that you're building together, it does make sense that if it weren't to work out,

that you guys would both be able to mutually benefit, you know, equally from whatever you've poured into it and built into it. versus kind of setting those parameters outside of that ahead of time. I also think, you know, one thing I've seen happen with a girlfriend of mine who's now going through a divorce is that it kind of sets up this like tit for tat. And maybe that was just her experience, but it's like, okay, well,

you know, I'm coming in and I'm paying for this and you're paying for that and I'm handling, you know, I'm getting this no matter what happens and you're getting that no matter what happens. It, it actually created a place for the relationship to not feel fully safe because it was almost like, okay, well, if something happens between us, I know I'm going to be fine regardless. But the other person was like, I don't know if I'm going to be fine. I could be down and out. So I don't really want to rely on you.

in this marriage for finances because I need to focus on my career because if anything were to happen, then I'm going to be, you know, out of luck. So it kind of put this weird like pressure on the relationship because of. Yeah, so I just think that it can, it can kind of create some weird money dynamics and almost come into it. mean, money is such a huge topic for relationships and it does need to be addressed. And I think it is a really huge part of premium.

Mark Rosenfeld (17:26.904)
Was it lopsided, you're saying?

Teal Elisabeth (17:43.231)
pre-meritable counseling to be able to talk through money challenges and how you would address money. But one of the biggest things that I actually thought was, maybe this is an overly romantic gesture, was Spencer came to me and said, all my money is your money. Like when we do this, this is yours. And it was a huge act of him saying, like, I believe in you. I believe in us. We are a team. Like, I don't want to be separate. I don't want it to be.

Mark Rosenfeld (18:04.344)
We're a team.

Teal Elisabeth (18:10.535)
your little stash and my little stash and we've got these like little, you know, little squirrel funds. Like we are a team together. And it was, mean, that to me was a huge act of trust building. And at first I almost didn't feel comfortable receiving that kind of gesture. But since then it has been able to continue to balance out. I bring things in, he brings things in and we all put it into this, you know, this beautiful pot together. So we don't have a prenup.

for us and maybe that's foolish and maybe that's ignorant, but we put a lot of thought and intention in talking into why we didn't want to do that.

Mark Rosenfeld (18:47.214)
Hmm. I like that. I like that. The only thing I would add is in your friend's example, I would say a prenup if it's done well, should make both people feel safe. And it sounds like maybe that didn't happen in your friend's situation in a scenario where, for example, even in a, different net worth scenario, I'd say a woman's coming in with significantly less net worth than a man. It's important for her to know if she

gives 15 to 20 years of her life to raise his children where she isn't earning, he can't or he shouldn't, I would say she shouldn't agree to a prenup where he just keeps what is his. She should get something to compensate for the 15 years that she hasn't been earning. So I think a good prenup protects both people where you can say, look, we just don't know the future. Unfortunately, shit happens, life happens. And in not knowing it, if the worst were to happen,

Teal Elisabeth (19:35.465)
Yes.

Mark Rosenfeld (19:44.591)
again, like me writing down my passwords. If the worst was to happen, we're both protected. We can both feel a level of safety, but I appreciate your perspective a lot on that, that you went, okay, I got this guy, he's all in, he's here. Yeah, maybe it's the slight more skeptic in me that says, oh, we just don't know what life will bring. But I do say that, and I'd say this to any woman, remember, a prenup is also to protect you. So if you are thinking, I want to be a stay at home wife, well, make sure that

you negotiate for what you might need after that because if you don't and then he decides, fuck it, I'll cheat on her cause it's been 20 years now, you might be, you know, you might be the one that that's left out of it with nothing protecting you. So obviously it depends on the laws, local laws and stuff, but I'd rather just know in advance and just be like, yep, these are the consequences if we break up. And one last thing on this I'll say is like, I know now like,

Teal Elisabeth (20:24.713)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Mark Rosenfeld (20:38.112)
a lot of those consequences, so I don't want to go through them. It kind of forced me to confront the consequences and, and, and be like, that's, this is everything we have to lose if we break up. So it's kind of like, cause of that, let's not break up. So that kind of helped us, but maybe it's not for everyone.

Teal Elisabeth (20:43.185)
Mm-hmm. It's water.

Teal Elisabeth (20:49.235)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think overall you've swayed me in the direction more towards prenups in general. think for the majority of people that are entering into a marriage contract, that's what it is. There do need to be set boundaries and lines. think what Spencer and I have is a very, very special, unique, special snowflake relationship that I'm sure everybody feels when they get married.

Mark Rosenfeld (21:14.316)
Look, let's be honest. We know that there are many thousands of hundreds of thousands of relationships out there that are going absolutely amazing. They don't have a prenup. They're going great. You just don't want to be in that small percentage where you regret it 20 years later. So that's kind of my mindset.

Teal Elisabeth (21:20.136)
Yeah.

Teal Elisabeth (21:26.099)
You don't. I agree. So I would lean, would encourage people that that's probably the best thing to do. Yes, absolutely.

Mark Rosenfeld (21:34.85)
So Tia, let's move on to our topic for the day. Calling yourself a queen, a king, a god, a goddess, an empress. I'm a... I'm trying to think of another verb for that, but I've run out now. I'm a very, let's go with king and queen. Do you believe overall that this is a good trend, that it gives people confidence, that it helps them kind of set their boundaries, that it garners them respect or is it devilishly narcissistic and we all need to stop putting ourselves on?

Teal Elisabeth (21:37.065)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Rosenfeld (22:04.385)
absurd pedestals.

Teal Elisabeth (22:05.279)
I love this. I'm so glad we carried this over from the last conversation because it's such an important one. And the funny thing is I don't really see a lot of men walking around calling themselves kings or referring to their bros like, hey, King, how's it going, King?

Mark Rosenfeld (22:20.83)
Why is that? I agree you it more often in women, but I do see King's groups and male empowerment groups with a little bit of that. But why is that to you? It's more of a woman thing.

Teal Elisabeth (22:29.789)
Hmm. Hmm. True, true. It's definitely become, I almost like feel like a fad lately of just, Queen, this, this idea and this mentality of, yeah, I am, I am the prize. I am the goddess. You need to worship me. And it's such a tricky slope. It is, it is because who doesn't want to be worshiped like a goddess that they are, right? Yes. A hundred percent.

Mark Rosenfeld (22:46.968)
that healthy?

Mark Rosenfeld (22:59.05)
Right, but we all fought. How do we kind of bring that in?

Teal Elisabeth (22:59.761)
I think... So here's the distinction I would take with it. That we don't want to be broadcasting that out with like, I call it the masculine confidence versus feminine confidence. We don't want to be broadcasting it out with masculine confidence of a, look at me, I'm so amazing. I'm a queen. I'm this and that. You need to worship me almost from an ego-based place. But we want to internalize it from a feminine intuitive place.

Because that to me represents more of a feminine confidence, which is just a very internal exuding out in our presence kind of energy where you don't need to say anything. You don't need to prove anything. You just, you just are it. You just be it. And people feel that and they respect that for what that is. When it comes through from more of that flashy outward external place, it comes off very obnoxious and kind of off putting in my eyes.

So I think there is a place for it. It's just about how we use the concept.

Mark Rosenfeld (23:59.97)
Yeah I like that a lot. Do you agree that it's similar to that saying where if you have to tell someone you're the thing you're not the thing?

Teal Elisabeth (24:08.703)
yes. Yes, I would. I would agree with that because it's coming from almost a place more of insecurity than it is an actual knowing and being. What do you?

Mark Rosenfeld (24:18.284)
Right. If I have to go around telling people I'm the king, I'm the king, I'm the king, I'm probably insecure that I'm not the king. Right. I, I agree. Yeah. I mostly agree if you are using it as an internal model of how to carry yourself, whether it's king, queen, God, goddess, whatever that is. I think as an internal frame of reference, especially if you're someone who's raising, attempting to raise their confidence, raise their boundaries.

Teal Elisabeth (24:23.667)
Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts on this?

Mark Rosenfeld (24:45.634)
carry yourself through life more effectively. I think it can be a helpful thing to model. Kind of like if a woman says, well, I love Kate Middleton, she's the queen. I want to be more like Kate Middleton. I'm going to adapt some of Kate Middleton's traits. And she starts embodying those traits. Yeah. I actually really liked that. I also don't mind in the informal group setting in the social aspect of it. So if one woman calls another, you're a queen, man, you're a king. I think it can really boost people up in with people you know.

to receive that from others. Once you cross the line of telling it to strangers, that to me is where it's coming from a place of insecurity. If you, again, if you have to tell someone you're a king, you're clearly not a king. I find that the more you, yeah, the more you hear someone talk about that stuff, the more insecure you perceive them as and the more they feel as they're trying hard.

Teal Elisabeth (25:22.309)
you

Mark Rosenfeld (25:39.358)
So as a model to build confidence, I mean, I have one of my groups is the Empress Club and I also have the Queens Club. So in a sense, this is why I brought this up as well. I went, am I doing my clients a disservice here? And I think if they took that and are like walking around saying, yeah, this is who I am. I'm a queen. I'm an Empress. Then yeah, I probably am, but it's more of a term that they use interchangeably just to communicate with each other a little bit. I don't think any of them take it away and tell the public that

Teal Elisabeth (25:49.503)
Hmm.

Mark Rosenfeld (26:06.04)
that that's what they are. And I'm sure there's a 3 % of the population is diagnosable narcissist. So I'm sure if you tell someone in that 3 % often enough that you're a queen, you're a goddess, they'll start running around with it. And I'm a queen, I'm a goddess, you respect me, blah, blah, blah. But I think for the 97 % of the population who don't do that, it is a helpful term to model yourself on and maybe to have one or two of your friends refer to you as just to help you set standards and boundaries. Just don't let it go to your head.

don't be egotistical with it. And I think if you can avoid those two things, I'm about it.

Teal Elisabeth (26:36.883)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because the words themselves, like you're referring to, they are charged with connotation and they're charged with really beautiful connotations. Hopefully they haven't been ruined yet. And so if you can really articulate and determine what does that represent to me, what does it mean for me to step into being this goddess or this queen or this priestess, then that is what helps you to then embody those qualities more.

Mark Rosenfeld (26:47.554)
Yeah, that's so true.

Teal Elisabeth (27:06.493)
And it helps to have a character to think of.

Mark Rosenfeld (27:09.976)
So TL, what three characteristics or traits, when I say the word queen or you could use goddess, you can pick your favorite. If we say queen or goddess, you pick your favorite. What three characteristics do you model yourself on when you think of yourself in that way, using that?

Teal Elisabeth (27:25.375)
Well, I think this is something I share with women when I'm talking to them on calls actually is this picture that I took when I first started Relaxing to Love that to me just represents the goddess.

Mark Rosenfeld (27:38.446)
so for those listening, Teal, can you give a bit of a description of this lovely lady in the photo?

Teal Elisabeth (27:42.897)
Yeah, it's a picture of me basking in the sunlight with my heart.

Mark Rosenfeld (27:47.234)
That's you! sorry, the screen's a bit blurry. I could not tell that that was you. well, it's you! Man, you look stunning. Amazing.

Teal Elisabeth (27:51.327)
yeah, that's me. Thank you. This was seven years ago actually. It's a picture of me in the sun with my arms stretched open, my chest open wide in a beautiful, stunning gold dress. And I'm just literally, my eyes are closed and I'm just soaking in the golden light of the sun. And it's just a very radiant, open picture. And to me, when I think, for me, the word goddess really represents the way I like to show up.

Mark Rosenfeld (28:00.482)
Hello.

Teal Elisabeth (28:20.591)
And to me, the goddess is exactly that. It's this glow from the inside out. It's a very open-hearted, expansive radiance that is so energetically felt. In this picture, I'm just seeing myself like I'm not doing anything. My eyes aren't even open. I'm not looking at the camera trying to get a reaction. I am just being witnessed in my essence, in the beauty of basking in the sun.

Mark Rosenfeld (28:47.234)
beautiful tale.

Teal Elisabeth (28:48.863)
That to me represents the goddess and what I love to emulate and what I love to help women to step into emulating within themselves. Yeah. What is it for you? What three words come when you when you're working with women to help them step into that, that Empress or that queen, what are the qualities?

Mark Rosenfeld (29:07.214)
I thought you were about to ask me when I think of King or God. I thought that's where that was going. When I think of Queen, I think, I actually think of a lot of the traits that Queen Elizabeth and Kate Middleton present as, or at least embody grace, poise, confidence. Yeah. Grace, poise and confidence. I think are the first three that come to me straight off instinctual.

Teal Elisabeth (29:11.325)
Mmm.

Teal Elisabeth (29:24.339)
The modern day queen.

Teal Elisabeth (29:32.639)
grace, poise, and confidence. I love those words so much. And it's so, if you could really like take those words and apply those to every area of your life, just imagine how much could shift if you brought more grace, poise, and confidence into every work interaction, every interaction at the grocery store, every interaction with every man in your life, your friends, your family. Just, just imagine.

what would shift with those, even just those three words. Yeah.

Mark Rosenfeld (30:03.054)
grace, poise and confidence. And then when I think of King, first things that come to me, I would say power in a good way, powerful actually, courage and strength. First three that hit me straight off the bat. If I'm showing up powerfully, if I'm showing up courageously, and if I'm showing up with strength and that's not strength lifting something, that's more the strength to not run away from the difficult emotions and parts of life that scare me, which I guess

feeds into courageousness as well. That's my picture when I think king. If I can show up that way, ooh, that makes me feel powerful just thinking about. Which I guess is the bonus of using the word.

Teal Elisabeth (30:42.111)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, it's interesting too, for my relationship, you know, as I've embodied these qualities and as I have internalized this more, as I've gotten more confident with this terminology, like I will say it to Spencer, like, well, yes, because I'm a goddess, that's just who I am, you know? And I don't say it from any historical place, but I do own it as like, yes, like you're witnessing a very special person. And he appreciates it.

Mark Rosenfeld (31:07.604)
And yeah, and that.

Cause you're not saying it from a place of ego where I don't have any flaws. And Spencer knows all your flaws, left, right, and center. He's seen you at your worst. So for you to be able to say that it comes from a much more well-rounded place than if someone on a dating app is like, you will respect me. I'm a queen. Get, get the F out of here. Who are you? Stop that. Stop that immediately. You respect yourself by walking away, not by demanding I respect you because you're a quote unquote queen.

Teal Elisabeth (31:31.515)
Right. But if you can use it in the right moments, coming from the right essence, it's actually a very magnetic, alluring thing and it does command a lot of respect. It's a reminder of like, hey, hey, remember who you're in the presence of right now. You better watch yourself.

Mark Rosenfeld (31:49.484)
So attractive.

Mark Rosenfeld (31:57.07)
Yeah. And, and I always say soft words, hard actions. And what you just described there was an example of soft words. You shared that there are standards here, but you didn't, you will follow my standards. The words weren't hard. The words were soft, but a queen will back her words with actions. So she doesn't need hard words because her actions will do the talking. Often the louder people speak, the more insecure they are that they can't actually back up their words with actions. know, a mafia boss ain't going to yell at you. He's just going to be like,

Okay, man. You know, if that's what you want, I'll just, yeah, I'll just cut your head off and we'll be done with it. Hey, you're like, fuck, I gotta take this guy seriously. man. So I love what, I love the way you demonstrated that because it shows the confidence you have in your actions to act like a queen, which is why you don't need to come out guns blazing and tell everyone.

Teal Elisabeth (32:28.391)
off with his head.

Yeah.

Teal Elisabeth (32:46.589)
Yes, I love that you brought up that distinction and that goes into that masculine confidence versus feminine confidence, the embodied versus the egotistical outward portrayal. And it is so powerful. And this is something I really love seeing women strengthen and work on because it is a weak point, I think. It's really, really difficult when you want someone to just respect you, you're like, you got to respect me. Look at me, look at me, hear me. You need to respect me. But that's not how people respect you, like you said.

Mark Rosenfeld (33:12.611)
Nah.

Teal Elisabeth (33:13.831)
It's based on how you actually feel inside and are you going to do the hard things? Are you going to have the courage? Are you going to have the boldness to walk away or stay with what you said and hold your own boundaries when you threaten something and make sure that you're actually honoring yourself. And when you honor yourself, then other people honor and respect you naturally.

Mark Rosenfeld (33:33.39)
100 % agree. And I have one more question for you on this. You refer to feminine masculine confidence. In that paradigm, is the masculine confidence you are describing a quote unquote bad thing, or is it just inappropriate for the women you work with, but maybe it's good for men, for example, or what does that mean?

Teal Elisabeth (33:38.42)
you

Teal Elisabeth (33:50.777)
Yeah, I'm glad that you make that distinction because you're right. It's not something like men being confident is a bad thing and it's not that all men need to be this like loud obnoxious person and that's their masculine confidence. You're right.

Mark Rosenfeld (34:02.402)
I was going to say, cause that's not what you're implying masculine confidence. That's more like insecure arrogance, right?

Teal Elisabeth (34:07.005)
Right. So maybe there needs to be a better clarification for it. I just think of it more as like in that reference, it's more masculine. Masculine is the bravado, the outward, external, and the feminine is the internal, more body centered. You're right. It's much more, it's much more ego versus heart. I think it's more ego versus heart. Ego confidence versus heart confidence.

Mark Rosenfeld (34:12.14)
RIVATO confidence.

Mark Rosenfeld (34:20.191)
centered action based confidence. Yeah, I don't have a terminology for that, but I would imagine there's also an even... Sorry, say that again for me.

Ego versus heart. Okay. Yeah. As a, as a man, we need to make that differentiation as well because it's not like our goal is ego confidence. There's also a heart and present confidence that a man can have, which may look different to a woman's, but it's not necessarily ego. It's that centeredness, almost a stoic present confidence there that men can show up in. And maybe we need, maybe we need a word for that.

Teal Elisabeth (34:36.767)
Yes.

Right.

Teal Elisabeth (34:56.467)
Yeah. I think we need a better word for it. Because I think it goes either way. It goes for men or women. It's that bravado or it's the internalized stoicism. Absolutely.

Mark Rosenfeld (35:02.391)
Right.

Mark Rosenfeld (35:08.014)
Right. And there's certainly, there is a time and place for bravado. You know, men fight and that has been part of our biology is men tend to fight each other. But in a lot of cases, the more bravado there is, the actual less confident as we've been saying, someone actually is. And usually the best fighters, the biggest warriors, they are quiet 95 % of the time. You don't see the MMA fighter starting fights in the bar. Like that is not the guy who's getting into fights. He's the guy who's just being quiet, and excusing himself.

Teal Elisabeth (35:29.439)
Right, right. Where the samurai is just like quietly sharpening his sword.

Mark Rosenfeld (35:35.104)
Yeah, they ain't starting fights at the bar. They're like, it's not even worth their time. They're so confident they would never fight anyone at a bar. So yeah, that's, that's a, that's probably a good example. conversation. If someone wants to call with you to become a queen themselves and really act like it, your booking link is in the show notes, isn't it?

Teal Elisabeth (35:42.943)
So true. I love that. Yeah.

Teal Elisabeth (35:54.143)
Yes, and if anyone is just really loving to dive more in and get curious about this Queen's Club and Empress Club and just want to talk to Mark Moore, we'll leave his link in the show notes as well.

Mark Rosenfeld (36:05.71)
Guys, thank you so much for joining us. Give us a five star review if you've enjoyed the episode and we will see you next week on The Tinder Project.